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 Warpath - good choice for space dwarf fans? 
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Hearth guard
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Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:56 pm
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Post Warpath - good choice for space dwarf fans?
Okay, thought this question deserved a thread of its own...

Playing Warhammer 40k as a Space dwarf fan means making choices and compromises. At present, the options are....

1. Use a fan Codex (likely raising objections from serious players).
2. Play using "counts as" for another army (probably the least objectionable for serious players).
3. Go back to 2nd ed (if you can get your hands on it).

Alternatively we could play a new system, that has undergone lots of play testing, with space dwarfs fully included and supported, and the rules available as a free download.

This will probably still have objections from 40k players, but at least we can say "c'mon, try sobering new."

Thoughts?

James


Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:09 am
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Legends of the forge
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Post Re: Warpath - good choice for space dwarf fans?
Warpath has great potential but there are still some issues to be worked out. Mainly with vehicles, heavy weapons, and the effectiveness of squads as they sustain damage.

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Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:01 pm
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Post Re: Warpath - good choice for space dwarf fans?
Good points. It would be nice if they got the rules a little further along before releasing them. It's a bit like Microsoft releasing their software before it's ready and getting their customers to beta test for them (they've supported doing that for some reason).

James


Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:13 pm
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Post Re: Warpath - good choice for space dwarf fans?
It is interesting that there's so many people loving Mantic getting other people to do their playtesting for them, but will rip GW for doing a couple years of playtesting in-house before releasing a codex.

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Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:21 pm
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Legends of the forge
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Post Re: Warpath - good choice for space dwarf fans?
I wouldn't say that using Mantic Dwarfs as a counts as army was a compromise...the original Squat army lists were half-arsed to be honest and in the big scheme of things, the Squats turned into allied IG anyway.

When it comes down to it, as long as your opponent knows what is being represented, you can call anything what you like, add what ever fluff you want and add as much flavour as you like.

If anything, it gives you a fully playable army with as little or as much effort as you want.

As for playtesting 'in house', sometimes when you are immersed in a project you see it how you have got used to seeing it and don't necessarily pick up on all of those little niggles. If you get others to playtest, all of those little gripes (or a lot of them at any rate) will get picked up. It is horses for courses though.

Movie preview showings are a good example of allowing others to 'play test' and sometimes lead to complete script changes.

I remember going on a manufacturer's course for the Merlin helicopter and one of the designers turned up to chat with us. He left, red faced, after we had listed a huge amount of engineering/maintenance problems that could have been alleviated with a small amount of design change...all because we work on the aircraft and he sits behind his desk designing them.

When it comes to my Grymn armies, I generally tie them into the Imperial Guard Codex.

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Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:09 pm
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Post Re: Warpath - good choice for space dwarf fans?
I maintain that using "counts as" is always going to be a compromise (though it may be a very good compromise), as whichever codex you chose, you'll have to shoehorn some units into less than ideal matches. Look at the "which codex" thread, and while the majority go for Guards or Marines, there is also support for more "odd ball" choices including Orks, Tyrannids, Necrons and Grey Knights, and that's before you get to "allies" options. Personally I think Marines are the closer match to the Squat units, but there's still at least one Squat unit - Exo bikers - that has no obvious equivalent (best compromise I've come up with is to call regular bikers Scout Bikers, Exo bikers Space Marine Bikers, and heavy weapon bikers Attack Bikes).

I think some of the Fan codexes have been valiant efforts, and I'd love to see them get more support from the fan communities.

I think public play testing is a good thing, my point is I think they are a little premature in releasing "Fate of the Forgestar" as a boxed set to compete with "Assault on Black Reach". It would be better to start releasing miniatures for the game now, and make the pre-release game available online, but wait six months or so till it's a bit more polished to release the two army box set.

James


Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:24 pm
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Post Re: Warpath - good choice for space dwarf fans?
Are we talking about Space Dwarfs or Squats here?

I know that some of the planned releases from Mantic cover some of the Squat units but I haven't seen anything like Exo-bikers in their WIP sketches. To be honest, I haven't seen anything EXO armour related either (I would view the Forgefathers as more Carapace than powered armour wearing).

That said, it all depends how you tailor your army and what it contains. If you tailor it to a Codex then you don't miss out on anything...you just have all of the contents of the Codex to fill...plenty of variety.

If you tailor your army to ANY ruleset, there will be restrictions.

I am not a gamer but have been immersed in the WH40k codexes and rules for a very long time and all they are, are just lists...if you borrow bits from a range of codexes, then you can put into an army whatever you want.

I am not familiar with the Mantic rules so can't comment on how they play or what are in the army lists but I am all for trying new things and if I was a gamer, I'd give them a shot...why not?

...but gaming groups are a fickle bunch... :lol: .

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Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:14 pm
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Post Re: Warpath - good choice for space dwarf fans?
I haven't tried out the Warpath rules. I have read through them but I already play a scifi game. I plan to use these dwarfs as a counts as Space Wolves army in the future (really, they are both injected with Norse fluff) . I have a hankering to try out many of the fan made dexes as well. If rumors are true that Tau will have demiurg in their new codex I hope that players will be able to field a Demiurg army on their own instead of just Tau with a smattering of allied races.

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Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:52 pm
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Post Re: Warpath - good choice for space dwarf fans?
Some good points here...

Squats our space dwarfs? Personally I'm a squat fan, so being able to use all my existing squat units in 40k appeals to me, so trying to find suitable units to play then as is the challenge. I prefer to stick to a single codex if possible, partly because I'm cheap and partly because cherry picking codexes, even where allowed by allies rules, affects the balance of the army.

I should state that I'm more of a painter than a player, and never a very serious player at that. I will always rate a fun game over a win, and I don't care for tournaments. That's part of the appeal of squats - fun.

But back to Warpath, the lists I've seen don't give much detail on the units, but the stats certainly look like there are biker units. I've only seen concept art for the units released so far (so if you've seen others, please link).

I'm glad Mantic don't seem to be copying the squats exactly, though I hope we'll see equivalents for exo armour, even if the models are nothing like the gw ones. If anything, the forge fathers sound more like the demiurg - aliens with highly developed technology. I'd be very happy to see a wide range of new unit types.


Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:39 pm
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Post Re: Warpath - good choice for space dwarf fans?
I think that the whole problem comes when you start trying to find ways of plopping units that you already own into existing lists...and as you say, Exo Squats on bikes are pretty unique (what about Chaos terminators on Juggernauts?).

I used to have a bunch of the Squat miniatures and can really understand the appeal but when it comes to gaming with them, they were badly let down by the rules. They were always half-arsed and makeshift...especially once they were made into allies of the Imperial Guard.

The fan codexes are mostly pretty cool but you often get over-powered units at low point costs...because we just love our minis!!!

If you are playing games with friends it is easy to come up with rules and agree on them between your friends...it only gets weird when tournamants and the like are brought into the equation.

If you only play a small amount and then with friends rather than official players, then why not try all sorts of games?

The thing is, we have mostly been involved with GW to such an extent that we get our blinkers on and start to believe that it is the only thing out there...I started checking out the WWW for different Space Dwarf miniatures an age ago and have all sorts in my collection. There is nothing stopping anyone doing the same...it is just a case of taking the first step. Mantic makes it easy by being free...

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Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:59 pm
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